This is the twenty fifth episode of, ‘This Week In Organic’, the weekly show that debates the ramifications of the latest SEO and content marketing news.
In this episode, among other things we discuss the fact that Google Analytics is 10 years old, that WordPress now powers 1 in 4 of all websites, and we debate why apparently over 80% of customer queries aren’t answered on social media. Plus much more!
Sign up to watch the next show live over at www.thisweekinorganic.com and share your thoughts on what’s discussed using the hashtag #TWIO on Twitter.
Bing have launched their mobile-friendly site testing tool, incorporating things like whether or not your text is instantly readable on a mobile device, and whether tap targets are sufficiently large and tap friendly. What are your up-to-date tips for optimizing your site for the mobile web?
Google are reportedly starting to send warning messages to webmasters if a site security certificate isn’t matching. But does this signify that Google might be moving towards giving HTTPS a stronger signal in its algorithm?
Google Analytics has turned 10 years old – and many viewers I’m sure can’t remember online life without it. But are there reasons for not using Google Analytics and are there any other similar tools out there that may provide something better?
WordPress now powers 1 in 4 of all websites – that’s up from 1 in 5, just 2 years ago. But what are the good things – and the bad things about using WordPress?
According to SproutSocial, over 80% of customer queries aren’t answered on social media. But why is this the case? What impact does it have? And is it really important?
And finally, Christmas seems like it comes earlier each year – and here in the UK we’re starting to be blitzed by Christmas themed ads from every known retailer in the universe. But which ad has caught your eye, and what can online marketers learn from this?
DAVID BAIN: Google Analytics is ten years old. WordPress now powers one in four websites and apparently over 80% of customer queries aren’t answered on social media. All that and more in This Week in Organic, Episode Number 25.
Broadcasting live on Blab, you’re watching This Week in Organic, the weekly show that debates the ramifications of the latest SEO and content marketing news. Sign up to watch the next show live at www.thisweekinorganic.com.
Hello and welcome, I’m David Bain, and each week I’ll be joined by some knowledgeable, opinionated folks to discuss the latest happenings in anything that impacts organic traffic. And as for you in the live audience, get involved. Click on the tell a little bird button and, it used to be called tell your aunt button as well, but now I see they’ve changed to tell your friends, so maybe they’ve split tested that one as well and that works better for Facebook, whatever it was, whatever it is, whatever suits you please click a button, tell some people about what we’re doing here. But, let’s find out more about today’s guests, where they’re from and what’s caught their attention this week. So starting off with Pam.
PAM ANN AUNGST: Hi, I’m coming to you all the way from New Jersey in the United States, I’m Pam Aungst from Pam Ann Marketing and, I’m sorry, there was a glitch when you said what else I supposed to say!
DAVID BAIN: That’s okay, Pam. So out of the topics that we’re talking about today, what particularly caught your attention?
PAM ANN AUNGST: Well the mobile one is very interesting, because there is a lot to it and actually there is a local, there was something in there about local and mobile and of course the interaction between the two is always fascinating to me, so that kind of jumped out at me. I’m looking forward to discussing that.
DAVID BAIN: Mobile and local combined. And, also joining us today is Casey, Casey, a second time around guest. Thanks for joining us, Casey.
CASEY MERAZ: Yeah, good to be here.
DAVID BAIN: And so, where are you from and what, out of the topics, particularly grabbed your attention this week?
CASEY MERAZ: Sure yes, so my name is Casey Meraz. I’m living in Denver, Colorado, where it’s not snowing right now, which is good. I’m the founder of Juris Digital Law, a marketing company, and what really struck me was actually just the brand new news about the Bing mobile-friendly testing tool, so that came out of nowhere for me and I started playing around with it a little bit, because we’ve highly dependent on Google so far, so that was interesting for me.
DAVID BAIN: I would be interested to get your opinion as to how it differs from Google Tool, because I believe it was about six months ago or so that Bing announced that they were going to make this tool or make this tool available to the general public. And now they’ve done it, so hopefully it’ll be a great tool for people that are wanting to produce websites that are a little bit friendlier for the mobile crowd, basically. Also joining us today is Danny. Danny, hi.
DANNY ASHTON: Hi, I’m Danny Ashton and I’m the founder and CEO of NeoMam Studios and we’re an influence and marketing agency based in, very cold at the moment, Manchester. I think for me, looking at the stories that we’re going to talk about this week, agree with Pam, mobile is a really big thing, it has been for quite some time, especially for what we do in regard to making content friendly to mobile, and I think that it’s a bit challenge and it’s a challenge that we’ve had for a long time and we still haven’t found a solution for it yet, and I doubt there is a complete solution but it is interesting to talk about and learn a bit about how other people are doing it as well.
DAVID BAIN: Casey saying how hot it is and I went out at lunchtime today and I think it hailed on me, it has certainly turned today in the UK. So lots of interesting topics to chat about and see how it applies to businesses today, so starting off with Bing, they’ve launched their mobile-friendly site testing tool, as Casey was saying, incorporating things like whether or not your text is instantly readable on a mobile device and whether tap targets are sufficiently large and tap-friendly. So, Casey, I also noticed that you wrote a great article on mobile optimisation that was published this week on Moz so obviously you’ve got some up-to-date thoughts on this topic, so shall we start off with you on this one? Where do you think this is going, is mobile optimisation now going to be at greater focus now Bing have brought out this tool?
CASEY MERAZ: Sure, so I’ve always been on the bandwagon of making sure that whatever you’re doing, whatever your involvement in internet marketing, that you’re the least imperfect, so everything from, say, structure to mobile-friendly, literally everything you can do, you want to be better than the other guy. And, obviously, we had mobilegeddon in the past that kind of came and went, but what we’re finding is making, redoing clients’ websites, for example, making sure that they’re mobile-friendly, we typically do responsive designs, is we see some uptake in traffic and you’ve got to realise that local is very mobile and so people that are doing a local search on their phone or whatever, you know, if they’re looking for products or services, in your geographic area, they type in that keyword and you don’t have that mobile site, you know you are still just shooting yourself in the foot from a user experience perspective or from a ranking perspective, if you’re not even being shown there. So you really do need to be heavily involved in mobile; your site needs to be mobile-friendly, there are no more excuses and there’s plenty of tools out there to test this stuff, so I think it’s very important.
DAVID BAIN: And looking at this tool, the new Bing tool, that’s been launched, I’ve done a few tests on it and I noticed that one of the bottom things that they test for is whether or not you’re blocking scripts on your site. So is this something that is particularly relevant to mobile sites to make sure that you’re not doing?
CASEY MERAZ: It depends. I mean sometimes there’s a purpose to why you’re doing that, so, you know, as long as your webmaster, or whoever is actually managing that, knows and that’s the good thing about these resources, is that it tells you, hey these are the resources that are blocked and you have a reason for it, that can be perfectly acceptable, just make sure you know what you’re doing and why you’re doing it. Make sure it has a purpose.
DAVID BAIN: And Pam, I also saw you nodding away there when Casey was talking about mobile and local combined there as well, those are obviously two areas that are very important for your clients, I presume?
PAM ANN AUNGST: Absolutely, yes. We work with a lot of local businesses who need to get found within a certain geographical region and there is just so much cross-over and one of the notes in the topics today talked about how traditional, overall SEO considerations impact local. People are accustomed to looking at local as a totally separate orphaned-off effort and it’s really, since Pigeon, it’s really not anymore, but I think we need to look at local and mobile the same and actually mobile and site speed, I think there should be cross-over and a holistic approach to that as well, because even though I haven’t looked at the Bing mobile-friendly tool yet, but even though the Google one doesn’t specifically address site speed on the mobile testing tool, I would assume that they’re looking at mobile speed as a factor of mobile usability when they’re determining how usable the mobile site is and how great an experience it will provide the user. I think that mobile-friendliness shouldn’t just be looked at as straight-up design, but should take into account mobile speed. So mobile and local should be looked at more holistically and mobile and speed and all three of them together should be kind of an overall user-friendliness initiative that shouldn’t be orphaned-off too much, because if you look at just the mobile design issues and you ignore the speed impact of the fixers that you’re applying to them, you are going to have different issues down the road. Does that make sense?
DAVID BAIN: It does indeed, yes. Danny, Pam was talking about speed there as being intrinsically linked to mobile as well. Obviously you focus a lot on producing rich content for your clients. Is speed something that you’ve had a greater focus on over the last six months or so?
DANNY ASHTON: Yes. So I think, especially when we rebuilt our agency site, I think our biggest focus was speed. Just because I know that that has such an experience, especially when you are serving, we’re serving quite big content anyway whether it’s in infographics and what have you they could be two megabytes-ish of a static image, but I think the real challenge is when we’re taking it to interactive content and seeing how that works on mobile. And I think speed, usability, they’re all really, really important because people haven’t got the time to invest and try and find out how it is you’ve put it together in the same way someone would be if they are sat in front of a monitor. If they’re on a mobile device, it really needs to be simple and it really needs to be as good as the apps that they’re using on a daily basis. And I think that’s the real challenge, that people are used to a good mobile experience and if they go on to your website and it’s completely different, then they are just going to switch off to it and what we want to do is engage users to actually share the content, to go a little bit in deeper, and if we fail at the first hurdle, they don’t know how to use it, then we fail completely, which is hard because we come from the world of SEO, where we didn’t really have to think about this stuff, we didn’t have to worry about it. Now we’ve got to look at things like UX and all this stuff. It’s great, because it’s great fun and it’s engaging, but it was a lot easier in the old days, wasn’t it?
DAVID BAIN: Danny getting teary-eyed there about the old days. So, Casey, can you maybe share a few tips with the audience in relation to mobile optimisation and some areas of focus that perhaps people aren’t looking at, because it’s not maybe traditional just mobile but areas of standard optimisation that really impacts mobile as well?
CASEY MERAZ: Sure, so a few things on that. So, first, make sure whenever you’re testing your site, use a variety of sources, so Google Analytics, obviously, is going to give you some interpretation into what those average page load times are. One tool that I like to use is urivalet.com and what you can do is you can plug your site in there, it’s going to load all the resources, it’s going to give you a huge breakdown and it’s going to tell you the different load types of you site, based on different connection speeds. Now we’re usually measuring it at 1.5 megabytes a second, just because that’s kind of on the lower end these days, with all the broadband everywhere, but at the same time what we like to do is have that load under, maybe, seven seconds, maybe five seconds if we can, and that really shows that you have something that’s very solid. So use multiple tools, check out the resources, see what’s loading slow, in a lot of cases it’s just big images, people are just uploading images and they’re not compressing them for the web, or they take a picture with their iPhone and just upload that directly to their website, which is kind of a big deal there. But another side of this is with the mobile site, is that you make sure that in addition to using these other tools, the UX and everything too, is set up in a way that is mobile-friendly on multiple devices. A lot of the time people are just looking at one device and saying ‘Okay, this tool has turned out good’ but look at the different sizes if you’re using responsive, every point for every different device and see where that comes out and at what point. What’s the breaking point? And fix those issues. There is a lot that you can talk about, but for site speed, as far as mobile goes, that’s essential. If it doesn’t load fast, people are jumping, they’re gone.
DAVID BAIN: So are those points within responsive actually changing a lot? Because obviously the size of mobile devices is quite regularly changing, so how often should you look at actually changing where those points occur?
CASEY MERAZ: Well we usually do it initially, because it can be a lot of work with so many device sizes, during dev and get that idea of at what size does the responsive design break and then make sure that we have it fixed for those pixels. So, we’re not usually running every piece of content work we’re producing, or anything like that, on this kind of extensive testing, but if you start off with a good base you’re going to be solid.
DAVID BAIN: Okay, great. So a few nice tips there in the comments section there as well. One question saying the phone in the Bing test took is a Windows phone, does this mean that it’s not tested on iPhones? I’m sure it’s tested based upon the actual size of the device, rather than the type of device. That would be right, wouldn’t it, Casey?
CASEY MERAZ: I’m sorry, I didn’t…
DAVID BAIN: Just a comment saying that the Bing test tool is a Windows phone, the actual photo on that, and the question does this mean that it’s not tested on an iPhone? But my response to that would be that it would be tested based upon screen size as opposed to device. Would that be correct?
CASEY MERAZ: You know I can’t answer that for sure, but I would think so.
DAVID BAIN: Another also someone suggesting that pingdom is a good tool as well. I’ve certainly used that once as well and Casey nodding away there as well. But lots of advice there already actually, with this particular topic, but let’s move on to the second one, which is Google are reportedly starting to send warning messages to webmasters if a site’s security certificate isn’t matching. But does this signify that Google might be moving towards giving HTTPS a stronger signal in its algorithm? Pam smiling away there, so I’ll give you this one first.
PAM ANN AUNGST: I’m just smiling away at you fumbling your words.
DAVID BAIN: Thank you.
PAM ANN AUNGST: As far as the ranking signal, I mean what we know as of right now is that at first they said it would give some advantage and then they clarified a little bit more that it would be tie-breaker as of right now supposedly that’s the advantages of all other factors, of which there are many, but if all other factors were to be equal between your site and a competing site, but yours was HTTPS and theirs was not, that you would win that tie-break. But they have also dropped hints that it is going to become more and more important over time, so this could be one step in that direction, perhaps. I think just security in general. Again, like I was saying with mobile and the site speed and not looking at things in silos anymore, security in general should be more of a goal and a focus for SEO overall, because if a site gets hacked and Google sees malware on it, that’s going to hinder your efforts and of course if you lose content or all sorts of bad things can happen if you’re not keeping your site secure anyway. So it’s one aspect of security, now I’m talking about a bigger picture thing, but we’ve had a lot of issues lately with client sites getting hacked and it impacting the efforts that we’ve been working on for them for a long time and it’s a shame, so security as a whole should be looked at as an SEO initiative, I think.
DAVID BAIN: Casey, can you see HTTPS being a more significant part of Google’s algorithm moving forward?
CASEY MERAZ: Yes, I sure can and just one thing to touch on, as far as that goes, it’s something we recommend for our clients, but one thing that’s not really talked about a lot is the link equity, just making sure that you’re doing it the right way. So I see plenty of people install SSL certificates and not redirect their site, all of these issues, but one thing to really take into consideration is that when you switch to a secure site, even though you might get that ranking burst, you’re going to see some issues of link equity drops, because you’re going to be using 301s where everything was going to the not secure version before to send that to the secure version. So it’s slight, but it’s important to take into consideration, because you can actually see some temporary minor drops while you’re doing that. So that’s a very important thing that I don’t think a lot of people discuss.
DAVID BAIN: Danny, do you have any clients that are actually moving from HTTP to HTTPS at the moment?
DANNY ASHTON: I’m lucky in that I don’t really have to get involved in any, too much of the technical stuff, although I have tried to move our site over and I’ve just stopped at getting a certificate, because once we actually, our site, the way it was developed, just kind of broke when you made it into HTTPS, so we have to look at redeveloping and probably anyone else trying to move into their site, it’s worth spending, like Casey said, it’s worth spending some time to test to see, don’t just rush into it, treat it like a proper job and take into account the potential pitfalls that can you do, because I’ve seen with client sites that have redirected incorrectly from a HTTPS, and that’s easy to do and once it’s, you might just forget and lose it and it’s a bit of a, any mistake like that it’s worth keeping an eye on. I wish we didn’t have to do any of these things, because it’s just an extra bit of effort… to have to learn something new.
DAVID BAIN: So it’s interesting that you’ve made the decision to actually move your site over, it sounds as if you’ve made the decision so what were one or two of the more primary reasons for you deciding to do that?
DANNY ASHTON: One of the reasons was that we needed to EyeFrame a piece of content onto a client’s site and their site was HTTPS and so they couldn’t take anything else. And I’ve had issues before when I’ve tried to co-host images when I’ve been doing guest editorial and they only take HTTPS, so it was becoming a bit more annoying dealing with that rather than the other side, and it honestly didn’t take too long, the challenge was obviously having to then change the site do it doesn’t break completely, so that’s a job for next month.
DAVID BAIN: So what about clients that don’t have secure sites? Would you be retaining a non-HTTPS version of you site to actually deal with that?
DANNY ASHTON: Good question. I mean most of the time we don’t, we won’t co-host from, I mean it’s very rare that we would do an EyeFrame situation, this was a situation where we unaware that this wouldn’t be possible to load content onto their site, so if we were, we do have separate servers to do things, but it was one of those last-minute jobs, so we had to move over, and it was easy enough just to have an HTTPS version as well as the standard, but we haven’t moved everything over yet. I’ve probably made a complete mess of our agency website, I’m sure.
DAVID BAIN: I’m sure lots of people have made a big mess of things; I remember talking about this subject about a month ago with Greg Gifford and a few other people, and essentially the advice was if you don’t have an existing website or you’re starting a new website, then start with HTTPS to begin with, but if you’re not in that situation at the moment, then just hang fire for a bit, just see how things evolve over the coming few months, then maybe make a decision in about six months’ time or so.
DANNY ASHTON: That seems to make a lot, I think I’d agree with that, I think if you do it, because it’ll be likely that your site, if you have developed it in one, won’t just perfectly port over to the other, if you’re lucky maybe it will, but I’d completely agree with that. Because it is a whole new world that you have to look into, certificates and stuff that you didn’t even know even mattered, but it does.
DAVID BAIN: Casey, is that the kind of advice that you’d give clients as well?
CASEY MERAZ: I would give, actually, the opposite advice as say if you have a good plan, then do it now. Because when Google makes these changes and they update the algorithm then everybody rushes to do it, you can take advantage of ranking benefits, you know just like with authorship or whatever else. So I’m always on-board with things first and like to be on the right side when they flip over.
DAVID BAIN: Right, okay, so as long you plan well for it then just do it as soon as possible. It’s just nature that you think of all the ramifications, I seem to like that word.
CASEY MERAZ: Yes, at least you know what you’re doing.
DAVID BAIN: Absolutely, yes. So it’s all about different opinions here on TWIO, so hopefully Pam’s got a completely different one and we’ll disagree with one of them.
PAM ANN AUNGST: I agree and disagree. We work with a lot of small businesses, so it after comes down to cost benefit analysis for them and prioritisation in relation to what other issues we’re dealing with for them. So if they’re not even responsive yet, and we’re looking at a whole list of potential things we could do and HTTPS is on there, we’re going to weigh the responsive as a priority over that, especially when limited budget is in play, so that’s how we’ve been looking at it for now. I totally love Casey’s perspective of being first if you can, is great and it has an advantage, but if you have bigger fish to fry and limited budget, we take it on a case by case basis.
DAVID BAIN: You can do a case study on your move from HTTP to HTTPS and hopefully get a few shares out of that as well. Maybe even links as well. But moving on to our third topic, which is Google Analytics has turned ten years old any many viewers I’m sure can’t even remember when it wasn’t there, but are there actually reasons now for not using Google Analytics and are there any other similar tools out there that perhaps provide something better? Danny, are you a big user of Google Analytics? Do you have any clients that don’t use it?
DANNY ASHTON: We do have clients that don’t use it, you do still have to this day clients who use these old server-side systems, because a lot of, especially businesses in security, they are now allowed to use the tracking that Google Analytics uses, because it’s a little bit insecure, I’m sure it’s fine for the vast majority of people. But from my affiliate days, I’ve always had a bit of a fear of Google Analytics, because obviously in those days I was not the white hat you see before you now, I was a little bit murkier, and so there is a lot of paranoia about the fact that Google potentially could see a little bit more with a Google Analytics account. So I got into Clicky, clicky.com, so I’ve got used to their system, got used to using it, I quite like it, it’s really simple and because I was using that, I didn’t use Google Analytics so much, so that’s my choice analytics, but then I’m more of the, what I’m after is very, looking at how people are engaging with content and I’m not so much the goal tracking and all of those things as much. So in a simple way, I’m really after very fast metrics, which Clicky has got, and I know Google Analytics has this now, but their live tracking, which is amazing. So when you do have a piece of content that just goes absolutely mental, you can see people coming onto the site as and when and their locations. Which is great when you’ve just done a decent campaign and you can watch it. Not sure how useful it is, but it’s certainly fun for me to watch, so I’m a big fan of Clicky, it’s relatively cheap, it’s not free. So that’s probably the downside, but I prefer it just because I’ve got used to it.
DAVID BAIN: Okay, so it’s not just the benefit of not letting Google track whatever you do, it’s…
DANNY ASHTON: It used to be, but now I’m not so worried, I like them to see what I’m doing so they can rank us higher and see all the traffic that we’re sending, as well as, obviously getting those placements. So if I was doing naughty link building, then I probably wouldn’t want Google Analytics, but maybe it would be better to hide within clear sight, I don’t know. But that’s not my reason, literally that’s the reason why I started it and now I’m just used to a different system and the last time I logged into Google Analytics, it was way more complicated that I remember. They’ve obviously done a lot of work on it, whereas Clicky is, there is a lot of stuff in the backend, but it’s there is you want it, but I think Google Analytics for me just seems a bit over, I imagine it’s probably overwhelming to anyone new coming to it, so if they do find that, try Clicky.
DAVID BAIN: It’s an interesting tool there you talk about, I remember before Google Analytics using StatCounter, and I found StatCounter to be very useful at the time, certainly, but I haven’t been there for a while. I think it was the first PR10 website actually, StatCounter, because they had this little bit of code obviously and it included a pixel that linked back to their site of course and it ended up getting them the PR10, I think. But, Casey, do you have clients using other tools apart from Google Analytics, are there benefits to using other tracking systems?
CASEY MERAZ: So we’re actually exclusive to Google Analytics right now, and we have been for the agency life. I have actually, over the past month though, I had some clients who were interested in trying other services, so for the first time, really, I’m going to be doing some testing with other services.
DAVID BAIN: Okay, and what aspects of other services are likely to appeal to you more than Google Analytics?
CASEY MERAZ: I like Google Analytics just fine, but I work in a lot of competitive agencies or industries, specifically like personal injury lawyers in competitive areas and there is some of that, even though everything that we’re doing is white hat, there is a fear about giving Google too much information, like Danny was talking about there, so we haven’t decided on which ones we’re going to use or test, but it’s on the horizon for the end of this month, to start isolating those.
DAVID BAIN: Interesting. And Pam, do you have any clients that don’t use Google Analytics?
PAM ANN AUNGST: No, like I said we’re mostly working with small businesses, so they don’t tend to want to pay for anything that they don’t have to, so if there is a free option we use the free option. But it’s a great free option, Google Analytics is incredibly complex, it’s awesome. Like we said it’s overwhelming, but I’m a geek, I like that. But one of the downsides to it is, it’s incredibly important to configure it correctly. If it’s not configured correctly you’re looking at inaccurate information and making decisions based upon a wrong roadmap, it’s like having your GPS send you to the wrong place. So the referral spam issue is incredibly annoying and problematic right now, because clients, or newer clients that haven’t been relying on us for help with analysing their data will come to us and will be like ‘Oh, our referral traffic has been growing by 50% a year so we’re doing something right.’ So it’s hold on, let’s look at the real situation first before we go doing anything about it. And other things, with internal IPs for large offices, we’ve got one situation where a very large office, a headquarters, they must have had every single desktop computer in the whole place open up to their own website by default as a homepage. And so they thought their hits were in the thousands and thousands and it was really, when we filtered that out, it was a totally different story. So, it’s a beautiful tool with a lot of information and especially when it comes to goal configuration, configuration overall is incredibly important, but when you’re trying to track the success and the return on your efforts, if the way that you’re tracking that success is inaccurate, that’s going to be just as problematic. We’ve seen people set up goals in analytics for visits to a certain page. If they visited the ‘add to cart’, their cart page, then they count that as some kind of goal. You didn’t actually get an order there, so it’s very, very important to configure it correctly in order for it to be the great tool that it can be.
DAVID BAIN: So, Pam, would you only encourage clients to actually set up goals for orders or is a goal something good to set up for an enquiry, for instance?
PAM ANN AUNGST: So, when we start at new SEO strategy with a client, we ask them what their looking to get out of this, what would constitute a good return on this investment for you? So it’s different on a case by case basis. For some of them, especially B2B businesses, we work with a lot of those, it’s not obviously an online order or sale, it’s some kind of a contact form, enquiry submitted or it could be a download of a dated piece of content, a White Paper or something, they consider that close enough to a lead that they want to track that. So whatever it is that is actually going to be a significant step towards contributing to their bottom line and that actually will, for them, in their perspective constitute a success on our efforts, we want to be tracking that.
DAVID BAIN: And you also mentioned click spam there Pam, is there any way that a webmaster can deal with that and not have to look at that? And perhaps you could actually just about initially what click spam is and maybe why people do it?
PAM ANN AUNGST: Sure. So, well what I mentioned was referral spam, I think click spam refers to something slightly different when it comes to PPC ads, but referral spam or referrer spam in Google Analytics is when these other websites are pinging your web server saying or making it look like they sent you a visitor from their site to you site, so it shows up as traffic sent to you in your referral sources from them. But they really didn’t send anyone, they are just trying to get your attention and when you’re looking through your referral sources you see buttons for your website.com and you go ‘Oh, what’s that?’ and check it out. That’s a form of spam and there is a way to filter it out, a little complex, a little more advanced configuration, but there is actually, I’m going to give a huge shout out to a guy named Carlos at ohow.com. I’ll double-check and make sure I got that right, I think it’s just ohow.com. We actually had him, sorry that is not it, it’s ohow something, I will get it for you by the end of the broadcast. Carlos is the obvious go to expert when it comes to referral spam, he is on top of it and there’s two different kinds, there is ghost referral spam and there’s crawler spam and there are two different ways to filter them out, but he’s got a great system for doing it and he’ll help anyone do it for their website, he’ll give you step by step instructions or he’ll do it for you. He helped us come up with a protocol for how we can systematically work this into our procedures when we’re setting up new clients, he’ll just get that out of the way from the get go. So a big shout out to him, I will give his correct information and put it out there, but, yes, there is a way to clean that up.
DAVID BAIN: Lovely, okay, and if you don’t manage to get it in time for the live show, I’ll make sure that we do get it and I’ll include it in the show notes when the replay is broadcast on our blog at analyticseo.com. But in relation to referral spam, Casey, is that something that you see on the increase as well?
CASEY MERAZ: Yes, so we’ve seen a lot of it and we definitely haven’t seen a reduction of it, but increasing, I can figure that we have seen that as well and we deal with that accordingly. Google says they are working on it, it was one the things that the Google engineers told us at SMX or one of those conferences pretty recently. So who knows when that will actually come, but it would be nice to have them take care of the problem.
DAVID BAIN: Lovely, well I’ve got Pam added the details of the chap to…
PAM ANN AUNGST: It’s ohow.co, not com, so ohow.co.
DAVID BAIN: Wonderful. Okay, great and we’ve also got to Search Talk Live saying in the chat that Premium Google Analytics costs $100,000 so Danny that could be in option for you there instead of Clicky?
DANNY ASHTON: Yeah, yeah, no Clicky is, I think, £69 a year, so I’ll stick with that for the moment.
DAVID BAIN: Okay, well coming up we’re going to be talking about whether WordPress is going for world domination, why companies don’t answer their customers’ queries on social media and how online marketers can learn from TV adds this Christmas. But first of all keep the chat going, it’s great to have that, so keep on telling a little bird and we’ll get some more people on here. But moving on to the next topic, which is WordPress now powers one in four of all websites and that’s up from one in five just two years ago. So what are the good things and maybe some bad things about using WordPress? Danny, NeoMam is that a WordPress powered website?
DANNY ASHTON: It is and it isn’t. So I’ve been a big fan of WordPress in setting up my own sites, because it’s amazing because for someone like myself, who isn’t, I’m not a developer by trade or anything like that, I can just, I can install a WordPress site pretty fast and I can get it tweaked and ready to go and there are so many amazing themes out there and plug-ins and that’s perfect, that’s great, but I think the challenge is when we talked at the start about mobile and speed, unless you do have a large server and resources then WordPress can be quite a hog on resources. I know people can set it up with other technical like using CDNs and stuff like that, but I really wanted our agency site, at least our home page and our case studies and all the rest of it, to be as fast as possible. I got a little bit obsessed with speed for a while, I was even going to do a post comparing speeds of agencies, it was very sad! But I didn’t do it in the end, but the key was that what we did was build the core of our site and I’ll post it in there so everyone can have a look, is in just a basic HTML edit, it’s not too basic, it uses nice, it looks good enough, but the main benefit is that it’s superfast and the security potential is massive, because there is no way, or there are very few possible loopholes to get into the server, rather than actually getting the key or, I don’t know how you would hack a server in that way, whereas WordPress, if anyone has had a WordPress site, you know the security of it is, you’re always going to install that plug-in three years ago that you forget about that hasn’t been updated and then someone gets in. And it is a nightmare, I’ve had sites where I’ve sold them for decent money and then they’ve been hacked, malwared, whatever you want to call it during the auction and stuff like that and it is honestly the worst. So you don’t want that on your main business site and you don’t want that if you’re a client. So WordPress is great and, sorry, to get to my long story, we were going to not have WordPress and in the end I had to install WordPress on the backend to the blog because otherwise it was a nightmare. So we have one side of it that is non-WordPress and then we have the /blog which is WordPress. So it is, they’re so easy.
DAVID BAIN: When you’re focusing on speed actually, did you try and design two pages with exactly the same look and feel, one powered by WordPress and one just a plain HTML page and having them on the same server to actually be spilt tested to see what the difference was? Is that what you did?
DANNY ASHTON: We didn’t, no, we just knew, I mean you can compare, like just the way a WordPress site works, it’s database driven, so it pulls in the information and it displays it, in most cases. So it is always going to have a, this is getting very blurry, it is always going to be inherently slower, whereas if you keep it really, I mean the way I got the idea is that we do a lot of interactive infographics and they were just simply, HTML parallax frameworks and they used to run so quickly and used hardly any resources. And I just said ‘Well, why can’t our site be like that?’ and obviously that is the way people built sites before WordPress. So it does take a little bit more time and investment and if you do want to change your site, add changed content on certain pages, it is a bit more work because you have to bring the developer in, whereas if it’s WordPress you can obviously make those changes, anyone can make them with ease really. But I’m really happy, we’ve got some really fast speeds, the site runs really, really well, but, yes, for a blog just to have all parts of the team, to get the market manager access and me and other people, WordPress is built for it and there is no better solution, I don’t think.
DAVID BAIN: So, Casey, does it make sense then for someone with a WordPress website to actually look at what their most important pages are from an organic search perspective and perhaps have those pages redone in just plain HTML format to try and absolutely optimise the speed, with speed being a small element in Google’s algorithm?
CASEY MERAZ: I could see what Danny is saying are the benefits of that. We haven’t had a need where it’s required that type of situation and that’s for several different reasons, one of them being of course, you know, the client may not know how to update that page or edit it afterwards, which can create some issues, but we’re not building really anything that’s very intensive, that would require that. I could see it though, definitely, if a page was ridiculous and you needed to reduce that. Typically the bigger problem you have is that people think of WordPress and they’ve heard the name and they want it and then they go to like a theme website and they just buy this really cool looking theme that they felt was awesome, but then it’s so bulking and so fat and just so much in there it takes forever to load and then they build their whole website on it and then realise that down the road. Because a lot of those themes that you find are just very bulky, they’re huge, so I think that’s a more common issue and something that we would advise against rather than working on some of those pages one by one.
DAVID BAIN: So, Pam, I know your clients are smaller businesses, does that mean that they are more likely to have a WordPress website? And, if so, what kind of themes would they want to use? Would you suggest that a website uses a general theme framework and a child theme within that? So something like a Genesis theme framework and a child theme or just something designed bespoke?
PAM ANN AUNGST: Yeah, that’s a good question. We do work with smaller businesses, and smaller budgets, but this is one of the struggles we have is when making recommendations we always recommend WordPress, we love that it’s open source, not owned by anyone that could just yank it away or have any limitations, you can tinker with any part of it that you need to, so we love that, and it’s got the great community so as soon as Google says ‘Jump’ Yoast is like ‘How high?’ and it’s like done, whatever new thing they want is in there already. So we’re always recommending it, but when recommending a theme we don’t really have a recommendation for a theme per se because what we’ve found best is whether it’s done through framework and child theme or just some other way, but just custom development is really seemingly the way to go, there’s just no bloat. There’s no extra stuff in there you don’t need. You just build exactly what you need and nothing more. And so that’s what we really like to recommend. It is of course a lot more expensive to have a designer do that, we don’t design websites ourselves, we just optimise them and work with the designers and developers on making them as SEO friendly as possible, but it is hard to recommend that higher budget option when there is the option between like a $20 tablet and custom designed for thousands of Dollars, when we know that custom really is best, so whenever possible we try to push them towards the custom and if not then go with a good theme that’s been, that we’ve seen used well before, which usually actually has been a Genesis framework with a child theme.
DAVID BAIN: Do you recommend Yoast for most themes, Pam?
PAM ANN AUNGST: Yes, we are a big fan of Yoast, we’ve tried all the other ones, all the other popular ones and they just don’t match specifically how quickly Yoast stay up-to-date with the changes, that is just unsurpassed, the way that they keep up-to-date with Google.
DAVID BAIN: Casey, do you have any thoughts on plug-ins or anything else that may impact the performance of WordPress?
CASEY MERAZ: Yes, so we’re a big fan of Yoast as we do use that, but plug-ins are a dangerous game to get into for several reasons that are at least something you should be aware of. One, of course is the security update we talked about before, security concerns. If you’re installing all these plug-ins and one is compromised later and it’s not being updated anymore, then that is going to be an entry for a hacker to get in and disable your site. So you definitely need to be aware of that, but in addition to that a lot of people just get plug-in happy, and then they start saying, even if they start off with a really thin theme, they start gathering all these plug-ins for all this cool functionality and before you know it, then your site load time is worse than it was before you had that other theme that was bulky. So, that’s a big concern. We don’t typically use a lot of plug-ins, we tell people we’ll build that functionality custom, we do that in-house, because there are just so many plug-ins that are bulky and they will have a direct impact on site speed, page load times and then vulnerability.
DAVID BAIN: And are you also a fan of WordPress specific hosting, something like WP Engine? Basically a host that understands WordPress and optimises everything about its server to make WordPress as fast as possible, or do you think it’s fair enough to actually host WordPress on any reasonable host?
CASEY MERAZ: I think hosting considerations are something that is also commonly overlooked. So first of all we stay away from share hosting whenever possible, budget of course is always a thing, so you always want to do the best that you can and we’ve tested services that are just WordPress only based and optimised and some of those, I’m not going to name any names, end up being worse than some of the other ones that we’ve just done ourselves and that’s mainly through dedicated servers and then just optimising it based on our personal preferences. But the only hosting thing I really want to say is be careful about share hosting and check the neighbourhood that you’re in, because I’ve seen issues with that.
DAVID BAIN: That’s a great tip as well. Sorry, Danny, you were going to say something there?
DANNY ASHTON: No. I agree with shared hosting, I mean there isn’t really the, in the old days of getting not, I’ve been shared hosting, I think if you can’t, because you can get decent hosting now for $50/$65 a month that isn’t shared. Because I think what the biggest challenge we have is that we’ll work with a relatively small client and as soon as we start driving any sort of traffic to it, it breaks, because shared hosting, people say ‘Oh, I’ve got unlimited bandwidth’ and then they go ‘That’s going to be great’ until they get more than, especially on a WordPress site, the way that it uses resources, you get 50 concurrent users and the site just goes down. Which is, if you’re trying to do a piece of content that’s potentially going to get shared, then you don’t want that to happen. There was also one thing I wanted to do, and I honestly don’t have a connection to these guys at all, but it’s going to feel like a pitch, but I’m a big advocate of making sure that if you have content on a site that you’ve got the share buttons and they’re right and they’re set up and I’ve been talking about this for a long time with, I did analysis of newspapers and how many, and it was like 40% of them don’t even have it set up right, so if that’s the case then I’m sure lots of small businesses and any business of any size has it incorrect and I had a look at different options that were out there and I came across this site called Warfare Plugins. It does cost some money, but it is quite cheap. I think, I’m just checking now, how much it was, I think it’s like maybe £30 or $20 or something for a, $24 a year and basically that plug-in will make sure you’ve got all the share buttons for your site, which sounds like something that there’s loads of free alternatives out there, and there are, but this one, it has got so many resources at the backend and it makes sure that the tweets go back to you as an author, you can customise everything really, really well and we always recommend to clients as soon as they start with us that whatever they’re using for share this or all these other types of share plug-ins, just get this one, these guys are obsessive about it and you get so much benefit. But I do not have any, they don’t benefit me in any way, I’m just doing it because I personally find it easier. You can see it, we use it on our site and it’s great.
DAVID BAIN: Okay, that’s a great tip. Thanks for that. It certainly doesn’t look like an affiliate link!
DANNY ASHTON: I do have an affiliate link and I didn’t use it, make sure of that!
DAVID BAIN: warfareplugins.com, if anyone is listening to the audio version. But that probably takes us nicely to the fifth topic, social media related, which is according to SproutSocial over 80% of customer queries aren’t answered on social media. Why is this the case and what impact does this have and is it really important? So, maybe Danny again talking about social media. Do you find that a lot of big companies are guiltier of not interacting on social media compared with smaller companies, for instance?
DANNY ASHTON: Well I think, our experience is that often, I think it’s something that it is still taking a long time for people to get properly, so there are some good examples out there, KLM is the one to look up for who gets it right every time, but I still think social media can still be seen as some kind of side thing, leave it to the intern to deal with. And we’ve all seen those cases where companies have tweeted the wrong thing at the wrong time and it is dangerous and I think it’s something that has to have the entire business focus on it, from the higher-ups, but I think that in most cases it is the smaller businesses who seem to get it. I know, just from businesses I interact with in Manchester, they will, some of the new small businesses really use social in a way that’s really, really powerful, bringing a community together, whereas I think probably the larger businesses, you know it is something that they feel like they have to do, they have to get involved and it’s just seen as an outlet for customers to complain, really, and I suppose that isn’t probably, no business really wants to get actively involved in that. But I think what this guy, guy or girl, I apologise, Search Talk Live, about they’re monitoring it but they are not really getting involved with non-branded questions and actually helping people out. I do know, I had a question about a AWeber recently and I was just talking about it with a friend of mine on Twitter and they got involved in the conversation, which I was like, because I was saying ‘Oh I don’t think it’s working right’ and they were like ‘Oh, is there a problem?’ and I thought that was genius really and something that it wouldn’t be that much harder to do, to hear when people are talking about you and to get involved before they’re going ‘I hate this company because they haven’t done this’ more about trying to get people when they’re not just complaining, they’re actually just wanting to learn more and get more, that would be great to see.
DAVID BAIN: So was that on Twitter? You just mentioned the word AWeber…
DANNY ASHTON: That was on Twitter, yes, AWeber were tracking and I wasn’t hearting them or anything like that, they literally were watching my mention and I was saying I felt like my newsletter didn’t work and I didn’t really know, because I was just on my phone and I couldn’t access my computer and I was just trying to tell this guy why he got an email from me, because I didn’t know why. Still don’t know. But they wanted to help me and I thought that was really good and obviously they know if I’m talking about AWeber in that way then I’m a customer, I’ve been a customer of AWeber since 2012 and so I know that it’s important for me to feel, that may be that one interaction I have with that brand all year, and that’s their one chance to say ‘Look, we do care’ and I think that’s really important. Certainly it can be done a lot better and we don’t, I mean we do the normal social media talking with people, but it’s more of a kind of building an audience and all of the usual stuff.
DAVID BAIN: I think that progressive marketers understand that marketing needs to be a layer throughout the business and needs to be involved in customer service and sales and other areas like that. Pam do you find that smaller businesses are more likely to understand that? And they’re more progressive because perhaps they’re younger minded enough and actually more likely to use social media? Or is it simply the fact that because they are a smaller business they have to do everything within their business anyway?
PAM ANN AUNGST: I think that it’s, from what I’ve observed, it’s a mix on both sides, whether it’s big business or small business, some of them get it and some of them don’t. A lot of them get it, a lot of them don’t. We just got an eBlast the other day from a local small business, they were like ‘You may have heard social media is a big thing now and we’re now live on Facebook!’ Huge eye-rolling. So, no, just because they’re small, I don’t think that necessarily means that they get it. There’s some that do and some that don’t and like Casey was saying, with the advantage of being first at a new thing with SEO, this is definitely not a new thing anymore, but the ones that embrace it are going to benefit from it and the ones that don’t, I really don’t know what else to say about the bigger brands not getting it by now, it’s like just ‘Come on, get out of the stone age, already’ I don’t know what else to say.
DAVID BAIN: Casey, does it surprise you that the bigger brands just don’t seem to be getting it and interacting to direct questions? And is this likely to change and maybe what are a few of the things that they can be implementing to actually improve things?
CASEY MERAZ: So of course it is surprising that they haven’t adopted that, because a lot of companies create a company brand, build their departments up and they’re responding to queries and in a lot of cases the bigger brands aren’t even responding to queries or to questions online and that’s terrible and they need to get on the game, but it’s also important for small businesses too. I mean Facebook now publishes the stats of your business response time and your business response rate. That’s like a score that they’re giving you directly on Facebook just for one example, but people need to, whether they are small or big, they need to have some sort of adoption there and add that to the agenda, at the very least to respond to those queries, because every impression of your brand has a positive or a negative impact for your brand, and if I’m mad at you and I’m venting online and you don’t respond to me, I’m going to be more pissed. You need to monitor that and that’s a negative point for your brand, whereas just responding and then being proactive or positive points to your brand and in addition to that, if you’re getting bad feedback and as a business owner or corporate team you’re not monitoring that and making fundamental changes to your business to things that are happening, then you’re potentially running a bad business, and you need to fix those anyway. So it’s so important and there are so many thoughts I have on that, but people need to be well involved in that and they need to build those teams, they need to get on the bandwagon.
DAVID BAIN: So, one more thought in relation to that is that do you think that bigger businesses are concerned that they could perhaps be flaming the flames and actually making it more likely for whoever it talking negatively about the brand to actually say even more negative things? Is that maybe the reason that they’re not interacting? And if that’s the case, is it right to actually give a customer service person full ability just to make that response straight away, or do you think that these kind of responses for bigger firms need to be confirmed, managed by someone above them?
CASEY MERAZ: Well, that’s what the scary part about it is, is having somebody manage that for you, what if they say the wrong thing? But most importantly they can take a simple approach; you create a procedure that says one response and then take this offline, so that’s their biggest goal, they want to respond publically and then they want to take that conversation offline, so they need to do that, just one way to start doing that, they definitely don’t want to get into any flame wars and that could just be based on the procedures there, but they need to respond and they need to find a way to take that conversation offline and be proactive.
DAVID BAIN: Okay. A quick question from Search Talk Live again saying what social media monitoring tools do you recommend? So, shall we go round everyone and maybe recommend one tool? A funny face from Danny, so we’ll go to Danny last.
DANNY ASHTON: I’ll Google social media monitoring tool and find out…
DAVID BAIN: What are your thoughts on this one?
PAM ANN AUNGST: I’m sorry, did you say me?
DAVID BAIN: Yeah, do you have a social media monitoring took that you use?
PAM ANN AUNGST: Yeah, I like and prefer SproutSocial. It’s not terribly expensive, although for some smaller businesses is a little steep just for the monitoring part of things, although it can be used to manage and post to multiple places and all of that as well. A lot of our clients end up using Hootsuite, but I do really like SproutSocial and the different, its ability to pick up on the mentions of your brand on the different platforms.
DAVID BAIN: Okay, yeah, I mean I must admit in terms of monitoring Twitter, I used the native app and also the desk top most of the time. I’d like to try BuzzSumo a little bit more moving forward, but Casey what are your thoughts on this one?
CASEY MERAZ: I’ve used Hootsuite the most for what I’m doing in the industry that I’m working in, typically we don’t need big tools to do anything like that, so I don’t have too much experience with them outside of Hootsuite, so that’s what I use and then the app itself and then Moz for freshness, just taking a look at that on Google alerts even though it’s not very fast a lot of times.
DAVID BAIN: Okay and how’s your Googling going Danny?
DANNY ASHTON: Yeah, I didn’t get a chance. Well I just use for Twitter I use my personal phone, I just mange my account, so I don’t manage the main agency account, that’s someone else’s job, but what I use for like alerts of the agency and potentially me, is Talkwalker Alerts, I think that’s quite nice, if you’ve come across that. It’s similar to Google Alerts, just a little bit better than it and it just alerts you when like mentions of, usually for links it’s quite good, I did try with BuzzSumo as well, having an alert on there, it was quite nice. So I have both of those and usually with both of them it’ll get picked up by one or by the other. Usually for knowing when someone has mentioned the company really, more than anything rather than a tweet or anything like that.
DAVID BAIN: Final topic and I’m not sure if this is just going to be relevant to Danny and myself, but we’ll see and that’s Christmas seems like it comes earlier each year, so here in the UK we are starting to be blitzed by TV ads themed with different Christmas things going on, so every different retailer out there seems to be actually doing it, but which ad has caught your eye and what can online marketers also learn from this? Danny, have you seen any Christmas type ads out there?
DANNY ASHTON: I’m going to be very millennial about it and say that I haven’t seen any of the ads. I don’t watch TV in the normal sense of it, I still watch Netflix, I’m not a complete thing, but for me I don’t know, I think this is, and this is completely my opinion, but I just think this is last gasp of the advertising world to try and recapture what they once had in the old days. I say that obviously as a provider of content marketing and someone who has something to benefit from the demise of interruption advertising, but I’m always amazed when I switch on, I watch the television at my mum’s and see the amount of effort that has gone through into modern advertisements, how wacky and how weird they are, just to try and capture peoples’ attention, because people just don’t want to listen to them, so they have to be inane and capture us in some way. Now I have heard that people seem to think the John Lewis advert is very good, but maybe I’m actively not wanting to watch it. If I want to watch a film and I want to watch an emotional reaction, then I’ll go and choose to do that, I don’t need to be interrupted by John Lewis.
DAVID BAIN: That’s intriguing. And Pam, is there the same trend within the States to actually produce ads which are minutes long for the Christmas period, or is that not something you tend to see there?
PAM ANN AUNGST: Well, honestly, I also don’t really watch TV, so I’m not really in tune with what’s going on for commercials. I do know that the Christmas marketing overall starts earlier and earlier every year. I went to, I did my last minute Halloween candy shopping on Halloween day this year and actually all they had out was Christmas candy, the Christmas candy was already out, so that same trend is definitely here. As far as the TV commercial content, I’m not really sure, but I know that with, we don’t only work with small companies, some of the bigger companies we work with still seem to have a divide in planning between what they’re doing on traditional media and what they’re doing on digital with their content there, so I think it’s important from a planning perspective to look at digital as a cohesive branding effort with whatever you’re doing traditionally. It was very orphaned at first I guess when it was brand new, people were like ‘Well this is a totally different thing, this is an entirely different approach’ but, I don’t know, I mean with how much video content is being consumed on social now, how can it be looked at differently? It really can’t be a totally different approach anymore, so I think it’s important for brands to plan for doing a cohesive approach to their holiday marketing on all channels.
DAVID BAIN: Yeah, I mean I suppose it’s video now more than TV, because TV is a box in the corner of your room, but it’s maybe used mostly, as Danny said, to watch Netflix, those kind of things, Amazon Prime or whatever really. Because I actually researched this on a blog post and I saw them as embedded YouTube videos, so I wasn’t watching them traditionally on the TV and catching up with them that way. Casey, do you think online advertising, online marketing can learn from traditional media, or do you think it’s more the opposite way around? Traditional media needs to learn more from what the online world is doing?
CASEY MERAZ: Well, I mean you can learn lessons of course going both ways. I think that the good, big thing about online media is that you could be agile and you can test and you can turn it on and you can get that immediate feedback and adapt as necessary, whereas more traditional methods it’s not working like that. So you can really hone in on your target audience, you know your target audience, create that ad specifically for them, see how they respond to it and then decide ‘Okay, should I tweak this or release it wider’.
DAVID BAIN: The only ad that I look at actually, that jumped out at me, was the one for Harvey Nichols and at the end of it, it had #GiftFace and that seemed to work really well, you’d probably have to run it and watch it to see what it actually refers to. But every other one seemed to be either talking about what they did or just a little bit too cheesy and just making you feel a little more ucky about the brand rather than actually liking it, and it’s hard to get the line right in terms of the right feelings and making you aware of the brand, but perhaps drive associations from you feeling about other things you do to what the brand does. It’s a tough line and also weaving that into online and other forms of marketing, and making people share it. So it’s a tough job and no wonder only just a few people get it right, I suppose. But I reckon that just about takes us to the end of this week’s show and to finding out some more details from our guests. So starting off with Pam?
PAM ANN AUNGST: So I think the running theme in my head from this conversation today was a cohesive approach, like I was just saying with the traditional media and online media or whether it’s looking at SEO instead of looking at silos, looking at your social, mobile, local speed, UX – all of that as cohesive effort with cohesive KPIs and measures of success and cohesive planning, I’m all about the planning and strategizing. I think that’s my main take away from this was, it this it’s as important to look at the bigger picture, to zoom out and look at what you’re doing with your branding of the company from a 30,000 ft level.
DAVID BAIN: Great advice and where can people get hold of you Pam, if they want to?
DAVID BAIN: Great branding. Danny?
DANNY ASHTON: Yes, so my thing from today, one thing that will sit with me, I’m not going to worry too much about the HTTPS thing for now, it’s not one of my priorities at this moment in time, so I’m just going to chill it. Once I do and I go through the process, then it’ll give me something to write on a blog post, but, yes, similar to what Pam’s saying, making sure that everything connects to each other is the challenge and will continue to be.
DAVID BAIN: Thanks, and would you like to leave us with some find out more details, Danny?
DAVID BAIN: And I was going to say Casey also, who is winner of the props competition, but Danny has just overtaken you Casey with the number of props. So, thanks, Casey, would you like to leave us with some final thoughts and take away details?
CASEY MERAZ: Yeah, I mean, just I agree with Pam of course – what she was saying about looking at everything from start to finish, that’s always one of my things, but mobile, mobile, mobile you know, if you’re not doing that, that is more important that HTTPS obviously, so if you’re going to prioritise your efforts you’ve got to make sure that you’re spending your budget on the appropriate areas, but if you’re not mobile, make sure that you are, put that as your top priority and then everything else rates second.
DAVID BAIN: Wonderful and where can people get hold of you, Casey?
CASEY MERAZ: Oh, yeah, so you can find me, my new brand is jurisdigital, you can find me at Twitter, @CaseyMeraz and then I have a consulting company Ethical SEO Consultants. So you can just Google my name.
DAVID BAIN: So, I’m David Bain, head of growth here at Analytics SEO, the agency and enterprise SEO platform with big insights. Sign up for a free demo of our platform at www.authoritas.com and you can also find me interviewing online marketing gurus over digitalmarketingradio.com. Now, if you’re watching the show as a recording, remember to watch the next show live, so head over to www.thisweekinorganic.com and be part of the live audience for the next show. Interact and add your comments to the next live show that would be great. But for those of you watching live we also have the audio podcast of previous shows, so you can catch up with that at www.thisweekinorganic.com and you’ll also receive details to that there. But until we see you again, have a fantabulous weekend and thank you all for joining us. Adios and thank you Casey, thank you Danny, thank you Pam.